19. Painting at Zion National Park - Ryan S. Brown

Ryan S. Brown: 0:00

You have to very early on, try to really set your priorities and understand what it is that you absolutely need to do. Your focus should always be and the motivation should always be, I want to be a great artist and I want to do the things that I want to do. How do you find out what it is that you want to do? How do you find out aesthetically what you gravitate towards? Well, you, you become a brilliant art historian. You You pour night and day over great paintings, because you know, alone in your own studio, making your own decisions, trying to figure it out is the only way to truly find yourself.

Laura Arango Baier: 0:39

Welcome to the BoldBrush podcast where we believe that fortune favors the bold brush. My name is Laura Arango Baier, and I'm your host. In this episode, I sat down to talk to the founder of the Masters Academy of Art and BoldBrush, master signature artist Brian S. Brown, we discuss getting your priorities straight, not only as a business, but also as an artist, finding your voice and your inspiration. We also talk about some advice to go from academic art student to full fledged artist. And finally, we talked about Ryan's upcoming Zion painting retreat featuring a star lineup of great artists to learn from. Hello, Ryan, and welcome to the BoldBrush podcast. How are you today? Good. Thanks for having me. Of course, yeah, I'm actually really excited to hear your perspective, because you're also a fellow Academy mission, if you can say it like that. So for our listeners, I wanted you to please give me a little bit of a background on you and what you do.

Ryan S. Brown: 1:39

I grew up in Utah. When I went to BYU, I was, you know, brought up Mormon. So I went 19, went on a two year mission, then went back to BYU graduated in illustration, kind of felt like, I wasn't really that good. I definitely wasn't, I didn't know how bad I was. But then I found the Florence Academy through a friend. And that was pretty early on. So the internet wasn't great resources. I mean, nobody else had really heard of academic study around here. So 2003, I went to the Florence Academy, I guess, applied in 2002, when January 2003, ran out of money, six months later came home, had to decide, am I going to get a job and try to paint on the side? Or am I am I going to just go for this and decided that I couldn't do it part time I just it wasn't something that I guess it maybe it was a little bit of a discipline thing. I knew I couldn't go work eight hours a day, and then come home and paint. I had two little kids at the time. And I think more more though, it was just the selfishness it was it was like I'm gonna, I'm gonna do the thing that I really want to do no matter what, if not, I will figure this out. I will have to I mean, that was the biggest problem to solve is how do I how do I go about this? I didn't have really any. Anybody showing me like how to be a professional or how to approach a gallery or how to promote yourself social media didn't exist. So how, you know what, what do you paint, I didn't have that many ideas. I had, I remember early on, like, I stumbled on one landscape that I did in Florence, that worked pretty well. And I was really struggling with what to paint, I was so raw as like, you know, I didn't grow up with any art. I didn't know anything about art history. I knew something about illustration history, because I studied that. But I was so raw as an artist, I just was, I don't know, I had no ideas. So I took that one painting that was successful, and, you know, got some attention. And I think I probably made 13 or 14 different variations of it, and spilled them all, which helped, you know, helped me just kind of keep going. But it also kind of helped me figure out what is it? What is it that people were responding to us that was like fumbling around on other projects. At the same time. I was starting to figure out the aesthetics of art, and what that meant to me. So I don't know, it was a weird thing. And it was it was hard for a lot of years. But I don't think I could have done it any other way. I think I had to just go all in for my personality and just find a way to make it work. And that you know, then, you know three and a half years later to January 2007. I went back to Florence because I knew I was missing something my processes really slow. I knew I couldn't make a living being as clumsy as I was. And so I went back and graduated in 2008. And then then you know at that point, while I was in school, I was also selling a gallery. So I was painting, you know, outside of class all the time. At that point, I had three kids, I had like an hour bike ride to and from school. And I still I think in the first six months of school, you know, you're going like 1012 hours a day, add the commute to that and add the kids. And, you know, I still made, I think it was, like 72 paintings outside of class, just on my own in the first six months. Just because that was my motivation. I knew the what the academy was for, I knew it was going to help me get the skills, it was going to help me progress and get more efficient and understand myself better in a, you know, much more economical way than I could have ever figured it out on my own. And it did that. But at the same time, I wasn't motivated by being a good student. I always wanted my art to improve. So I made it a priority to work on my own paintings all the time, even when we're hiring models on the weekend. I had an idea I wanted to pursue, I wasn't like, Okay, I need more practice on a portrait. I mean, certainly there was that, but I wanted to paint an idea. You know, I would take models out around Florence and photograph them in different settings and different costumes. And you know, so the first paintings I did when I got back were a 40 by 70, of, of a girl in front of Casa de Dante with pigeons around and and I did a portrait of my friend Jordan Sokol out weaved throughout painting outside of Pisa with him and girl, Costanza and Tim McGuire and, and so I did some studies of him out when we're painting and then I did a big six foot by seven foot painting of him and his easel behind him and the his his SketchUp on the Eastville, and then the scene, he's sketching. And then I did like a five foot by 10 foot landscape of the Catskill clove, which I went to the Hudson River School 2007 2008. So collected all the studies and then so when I graduated, I was like, coming out, I had, I had these big ideas, and I mean, the timing sucked, because it was 2008. And, you know, everything crashed, and, and then I came home, and I had given up my most of my clientele, because I was just doing mostly landscapes. And then I came back from Florence, and now is doing figures in the landscape. And, and, you know, I had a lot of figure ideas. So I was working, at the same time as the big crash, I decided to do paintings that were had far less than audience that were really big, so had much bigger prices on them. And it's just like, the timing of that was like the worst. But it but it were, you know, I mean, again, it was kind of a slog to get back going and restart the career because I'd taken that hiatus as a student, even though I was still selling in galleries, it's it did definitely did kind of knock me down as with my momentum, professionally. And then, gosh, I think I was selling and maybe eight or nine galleries, and I realized I wasn't doing as good work because I thought I should be. And so then then, and then I pulled out of galleries all together for like three or four years, which again, just killed all my momentum. And now for the last two, two or three years, I've been selling and galleries again. And and yeah, I keep shooting myself in the foot. But it is what it is, I guess.

Laura Arango Baier: 8:38

Oh, but you keep picking yourself up. And I think that's much more important than you know. I mean, it's kind of inevitable that sometimes we shoot ourselves in the foot, the important thing is getting asked back up. And I think that's amazing.

Ryan S. Brown: 8:51

Yeah, I mean, as as long as your your focus is on just doing your best and you're constantly painting, I think there's no, there's no right path to to making it work to do. I don't know, everything we do is sort of Passion Driven. So I don't even know if you can really claim mistakes. And you know, you don't think certain choices you make may not work out the way you thought they would, but you learn from it. So I can't really say that, that I've made mistakes or have regrets. I've certainly learned a lot

Laura Arango Baier: 9:24

along the way. Yeah. And you know, I also have the same perspective, or it's not about a right or wrong choice. It's about what choice has different consequences. And that's pretty much it. And you just deal with them. And you It's you shouldn't live the unlived life so it shouldn't matter if you had taken the other choice. You took that choice now and you're you're on your path here doing your thing.

Ryan S. Brown: 9:49

Yeah, and as long as he it sincerely and you know, purposefully, I mean, you can't predict everything. So you just like I tell students, you have to very early on, try to really set your priorities and understand what it is that you absolutely need to do. You know, some people, maybe they don't have a whole lot of experience. And so they say, I want to be as good as I can be, okay, well, that's a priority, you might have to then dedicate three to five years in the academy. If your life doesn't suit that, then you have to figure out how to finesse your life so that it will, if that's your absolute goal, if that is your priority, then everything else has to sort of subordinate to that, and you figure it out. And then you know, when you're a professional, it's the same thing, if you, if you're motivated by, like, my motivation, I don't even know how to describe it, I'll try but I, at the risk of sounding pretentious, my motivation is I, I want to feel like the work I'm creating fits in with the tradition that I admire most that that, you know, if I, if I'm doing the paintings, if whatever paintings I make, if they hung next to my heroes, that it would feel equally as purposeful, and it would feel like it fit, you know, I want to be a brick in the, in the lengthy tradition of this bridge from generation to generation. I don't want to be a bystandard to it, I want to feel like I'm a part of it. And so when I go through the museums, I what I'm really looking at, I feel like is very purposeful decision making on the canvas, very purposeful decision making, when it comes to subject matter what they were painting, obviously, the craft is at the highest level. But it's, it's why they painted the pictures they painted. And in the message that that offers viewers, that's that you know, what I hope to achieve. So what that means is, is that, that priority changes how I spend my day, you know, I can't turn into like a content creator, although like, I do a podcast and like I'm trying to film a TV series. But that's just because I love talking to artists, that's part of like, my greatest joy of being an artist is talking to other artists and seeing their studios and hanging out with them and getting to know them. So. So that's a pure motivation for me, but you know, making a bunch of Tik Tok content or Instagram stuff, or like it has a level of importance, because we have to show our work and we want to show our work. But it's lower, it's much, much lower on my priority list than being in front of the easel. So you know that when you set your priorities, and you know, why you're doing something and doing it on purpose, then, you know, maybe if you don't get as much attention or your sales aren't as great as other artists, you did it on purpose, it was your choice, right? You you chose to put more time here than in marketing or whatever. So I think if you if you do that you can at least feel comforted that whatever comes is, is is on purpose. You did you made that choice. That's I don't know, that's the advice I give younger artist is just know your own mind and be true to that. And then be okay with the choices you make as a result of trying to make that keep that as a priority.

Laura Arango Baier: 13:38

Very wise. Yes, I completely agree we are. There's this quote that my grandfather says I love him. He says, We are the masters of our silence and slaves to our words. So if we make a promise to ourselves, are we, you know, say we're gonna do something, you're a slave to that, and you have to put up with it and just take responsibility for it, which I totally agree. Yeah, that's really great advice.

Ryan S. Brown: 14:07

Yeah, I kind of feel like I put my foot my mouth quite a bit in the past. You know, like, I came out gung ho from Florence. I was like, I'm going to start a school in Paris. I'm going to like, I'm going to create this amazing world class school, we're going to do it in the city that that is like my mecca for art. Really the way where all the tradition stems from, I'm going to do it. And then I couldn't financially figure it out. And then a couple years later, I'm like, I'm gonna do it. I flew to Paris with my wife. We looked at homes, we looked all around and realize, dammit, it's still not I still can't make this work. But I've been I've announced it publicly. I've like been like, Okay, if I tell people I'm doing it, I don't want to face the embarrassment of failing at it. So I'm just going to I'm going to promote it and maybe people will hear about it. They want to they want to support it. I'll tell Hello, everyone what I'm trying to do, and then it doesn't happen. And now I'm, like after several times, but that I'm like, Okay, I just, I'm going to keep my plans to myself a constant embarrassment of, of looking like the guy who always says big things and never does them. But yeah, I so it's, it's been a problem for me I try to share all of my big ideas, because who knows, who knows who's gonna hear about it and want to support you. And so I've been willing to like deal with the embarrassment of, of things falling through. But yeah, as I get older, I tend to maybe try to keep a little bit more of myself, even though I that's just not my personality. I'm just as you I'm just blab about anything.

Laura Arango Baier: 15:50

I don't Blab. But you know, you tried though you did go to Paris. So that counts, you made the effort. You It's not like, you know, the people who say, Oh, I'm gonna go to the gym, and then they like, lay on their couch forever. And, you know, that's different. That's like, You're not just saying big words, you actually try and you put in the effort, you looked at places, that means something. So

Ryan S. Brown: 16:12

yeah, that's the I'm just not a I'm not a businessman. I'm not. I'm an idea guy. And it's the funding and finding donors and whatever that I've always struggled with, I think the you know, they're all they're really good schools, they have this great partnership between, you know, the visionaries who started them that you know, have the craft and whatever. And then then there's always another person that steps up and kind of takes care of the day to day details than the administrative stuff. I never quite was able to find that that other person, but But it's fine, it's fine, I'm really happy where I'm at now, I kind of largely shut my school down in January. And so I've got way more time to paint this year. And I'm doing like one on one mentoring. I maxing that out at six students. So it doesn't take too much time. You know, I meet one on one with these people. Typically, remotely, people are out of state and some people are in state. So they come in, and I you know, I get to pick it up on their work or whatever. I like the one on one idea of mentoring. Because at the end of, of teaching here at the Masters Academy, I just realized that I was helping people get really good from a skill standpoint, but I wasn't really helping them become artists. And that I that was always my motivation. I wanted to kind of recreate the community that I had in Florence. I just felt so constantly inspired. And there was always people to talk to and always people coming over for dinner and and we would talk about art. We wouldn't we wouldn't talk about academic stuff. And and I, you know, when I came back from Florence, Utah, it was sort of a desert of this information. It just, there's a lot of artists in Utah, but no one had really studied academically, and it is a different conversation. It's a it's a, I think that it comes with a deeper understanding a deeper understanding of art history, certainly a higher level of technical understanding. And so what I was trying to do with the school is was sort of build a community around me, I figured if I could give three to five years to this. Now, you know, I've helped people get a foundation now they can turn around and we can just be artists together. But the reality was that the majority of students anywhere, not just here, but anything Yeah, to me, they do really well. When they're told what to do. They do really well in the confines of the school, but they don't go home and give themselves projects. They don't go home and paint they don't go home and make their own paintings and fumble through their own decisions. And you know, figure it out figure out exactly how they want to describe something in paint. And so they there's there's this separation of skill development and artistic maturation, and I thought those should those things should be happening. So I'm happening simultaneously, and they just weren't. So yeah, the mentorship for me is meant to just, I mean, it starts out I just interview the person one on one and find out. What do you want? What are your goals? I want to know what your goals are, because then we can we have basically we're going to develop some skill through your projects, whatever paintings that you want to make, I'm just going to help you try to make them a little bit better and not, you know, maybe not as clumsy throughout the process. I'm going to try to clean up the process as soon as you have a little bit more clarity when you approach these projects, but they're your ideas. And then the others, like, you know, I can see maybe where you're struggling or where you could clean up some some of your skills. And then I'll give some suggestions for exercises they can do just as pure skill development, but the majority of our conversation is trying to make their art better. And, and then, you know, we have conversations about everything from how to approach a gallery to framing to budgeting to how to spend your day to materials to whatever, just everything involved in, you know, what we have to understand to be professional artists. And I'm far more interested in focusing on that than I am on, you know, helping somebody do a good bar drawing or a good cast drawing.

Laura Arango Baier: 20:48

Yeah, totally. Yeah. And I think more and more, a lot of people are turning to mentorship like that one on one, because it's nice to go to the academy. I mean, I went to so. And it's really great to develop that skill set. But it's like you said, when you want to develop your own personal voice, it's really hard to find that at an academy when you're, when they're just telling you to do a cast. I really can't Well, what if I want to do it this way? Like no, stick to the method and you're like, oh, yeah, later,

Ryan S. Brown: 21:20

the very first day at the parks Academy, Daniel Griggs is very specific. He's he says, you know, you're here to learn skills, and we can help you, you know, correct your drawings, whatever. But the moment you draw something inaccurately, or you drop a shoulder, we and we tell you to change it, and you're like, Well, I like it this way better. Your education here is done. And so very clear that like, aesthetic decisions aren't part of this art making isn't part of this. And I see his point. But I think what that concept is missing, again, we talked a little bit about this earlier, is that the thing that's missing is the focus on what comes next, your focus should always be and the motivation should always be, I want to be a great artist, and I want to I want to do the things that I want to do if you can, and maybe maybe when you're young, you don't know exactly what that is, right? I certainly didn't. So how do you find out what it is that you want to do? How do you find out aesthetically what you gravitate towards? Well, you, you become a brilliant art historian, you you pour night and day over great paintings. And you you find motivation, so easy. Now, it's social media. So I mean, you put together folders of paintings that you love, you should be, you should be saving a minimum of 30 150 paintings a day, just look on the internet. And then and then you start to figure out what it is that you continuously love to look at. And that starts to give you inspiration for what it is that you might want to paint yourself. Not necessarily saying I want to recreate the 19th century or whatever, but there's something about this painting that I love, there's something about, you know, in the 19th century painting, you know, a family being evicted and all the town out on the street, looking and judging and the constable leading them away from the house and the sadness of the moment. And, you know, there's plenty of narratives today that that are online with that. I mean, how many people lost their homes during COVID? I mean, it's a, there's, there's, it's the same tragedy. And yet, we could define it in our own terms. And so, yeah, I mean, there's, there's, there's innumerable ways to get motivated and, and, and get inspired to overcome the lack of ideas. But if you lose focus on that being the goal, painting your own ideas, then you can just adopt the study as your art, which a lot, you know, I would say the majority of students do. And then you know, for a decade after graduation, you're still doing still at shadow box still lives in single head portraits. Because you can't leave the method and you you, you haven't thought beyond the subject matter. So yeah, I think that's tragic. Tragic. I think the greatest tragedy the academies, the modern academies, is the is the lack of individuality after graduation. I mean, the greatest tragedy in art is that you would lose your individuality. Right? So yeah, I mean, I don't know the answer to that. I think that's a two parter is one is systemic. That system itself could change the conversation, The Daily Conversation, and talk more about art and what comes next and, you know, focus the student attention on on why they're developing skills, what you know, the post application of those skills But then the greater responsibility is individual. I think people that are going to the schools to have to be really disciplined and you know, gonna be going home and skipping class and whatever to work on their own stuff.

Laura Arango Baier: 25:14

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Ryan S. Brown: 26:08

to clumsily find your own solutions, you really, there's no other way to do it. If you rely solely on the problem solving skills that you're being fed at the academies, your work is inevitably going to carry that dogma with it for a long, long time. So you have to be willing to be a little bit clumsy and and you know, make attempts to do work that is a little outside of your your skill set. And you know, think about it differently and have conversations with people that that you assume you wouldn't agree with at all, artistically. To stretch your stretch your thinking. Yeah, you know, all this, I'm sure it's just with with people from the academy, but it's, I'm hoping I'm hoping this, I'm hoping the academies evolve. I feel like there's a stagnancy to the way they're going about it. And it was necessary the way they're doing it was necessary early on, because really skills were so absent in the in the larger art world. But we've, you know, they've been doing it now for over 25 years. And it's, I feel like it's time for the next evolution and my hope. And I can't claim that I'm right about this. But my thought is that the next evolution has to come with the conversation about art more and design and composition and narrative and the purposefulness of art. And I think I'm worried that if they don't find a way to do that, they're going to become obsolete very quickly, because skills or skills are pretty easy to pass on. But the development of individualistic art, art is it's complex, it's difficult, takes a long time to mature into.

Laura Arango Baier: 28:00

Absolutely, yeah. And what I've also found with these, with these academies that you've also mentioned is that you become so engrossed in the method and in the dogmas of the method that you you reach this, this point where you don't know who you are anymore, almost which I agree with you seeking out inspiration all the time and seeking out paintings and drawings online. We're so blessed with the internet thing, so that so seeking that out, and then figuring out, what the heck do you even want to say, as an artist, you're not just making, you know, still lives forever? Right? What do you want to say with it? Sure. Maybe you can make still lives, but how? How do you make it different? How do you make it yours? You know,

Ryan S. Brown: 28:45

yeah. And that requires a lot of experimentation and clumsiness. But I think finding out who you are, and being true to that, as I guarantee anyone who's doing the shadowbox still as for 10 years after graduation, still has that mentality, right? I mean, they're they feel individualistic, they feel like they're doing their own work, and it's very personal to them. And I wouldn't, I would never want to, like diminish the sincerity of what they're doing. I don't doubt it for a second that they're sincerely, you know, painting what moves them. But I, I wonder, it's the unanswerable question. What would they be painting? If they never went to the academy? You know, beyond you know, would it be as good from a skill standpoint? What if they would have developed artistically outside of the confines of that, you know, that narrative and that that absolute method? How would they paint what would their paintings look like? What would they you know, how would their touch be more unique? Their their sort of stylistic choices, their design choices, How would those differ? And I think I think we would see a lot more individuality. Because you're because you know, alone in your own studio, making your own decisions, trying to figure it out, is the only way to truly find yourself. But, again, it's an unanswerable question. You know, what would my paintings look like if I didn't go to Florence Academy? I don't know. I have no idea. I mean, certainly I carry that influence to a degree. So yeah, I don't know. It's, it's, it's a it's something that like, it's a it's a running theory, right. I have no idea what the long term effects would be. But I have seen the longer term effects of the Academy, I have, you know, 2002. So I guess, 20 years, watching this thing. And the long term effects to me seem to be that individuality is being bred out of students. And I think that's tragic.

Laura Arango Baier: 30:56

Yeah, yes, I completely agree. And I think that's also one of the, you know, the caveats of going to the schools as remembering that it's a means to an end, it's, it's fine to go to these schools, it's actually in a lot of cases, I would recommend it to some people, because as long as they remember that it's a means to an end, it's useful, you know, it's, it boosts your self confidence. Yeah,

Ryan S. Brown: 31:21

um, well, there's no better training ground to get the skills as economically and understand them as deeply as the academy as the academic method offers. But again, like you said, if you really have to be diligent about your focus being on why you're trying to get those skills, so

Laura Arango Baier: 31:43

absolutely. And the other thing that I wanted to touch on with you, since now, we're talking about individuality and finding your voice is, you know, marketing and branding yourself. I think that's really important. And I'm sure you agree with that, since we've been talking basically about it this entire time. So let's talk some business. Do you have any business tips or advice beside firm, you know, be yourself?

Ryan S. Brown: 32:10

Yeah, I mean, the best advice I could give would be marry wealthy, saves a lot of time and energy. And you can focus more on being like, whatever a pure artist means you can. If you don't have to monetize your art, I could go one of two ways, maybe you get lazy, and you don't produce as much, but maybe you could really free up your creativity. So on the one hand, there's the idea that you don't quit your day job. And you you paint on the side, so you don't have to rely on art as a source of income. And it works for a lot of artists. I just talked to Julie Beck, who helps run the Ara in, in Boston. And that's what she does. And you know, I love what she does. But for me, I was the opposite. I had to go all in and just struggle. I mean, it was a it was a struggle financially plus with you know, you know, getting married young having kids young. It was It was rough, for a long time, but I couldn't have done it any other way. In terms of branding, that that's where probably again, I've shot myself in the foot because I know that if you choose one thing and you do it over and over and over, it's very easy to brand yourself and break through. You know, everybody wants to label you write the rock. I don't want to see him play Shakespeare, you know, is an action star. I don't want to hear Snoop Dogg's Western album. I want you I people you want to like people are labeled. They have their thing. In art. They always you know, I don't know how many times I've heard you got to find your niche. I hate that. I think that's insane. I think that, I mean, I don't disagree with it. I just don't want it for me. Because I feel like as soon as I finish a landscape, or a winter landscape, I want to do a seascape. And then when I do a seascape, I want to go do a reclining nude or, or a figure outdoors and then I want to do like, it's cherry blossom season. So oh my gosh, I gotta paint those cherry blossoms and so I feel like creativity. I I've always thought you know, I want to be respected as an artist if I make if I make a coffee table. I want that to have value because I made it you know, and I love working. I'm not very good at it. I don't spend time on it. But you know, I love sculpting. I do very little of it, but I love it. And I feel like I know that that has set me back because my work. I don't know how my work ties together. I don't I haven't done well at branding myself because I'm unwilling To settle on a subject matter, and even, I guess last January, I thought I'd be really disciplined and just like stick to landscape for a couple of months, if I could just do that, then maybe, you know, the galleries will be happy and they can, like, start to brand me. And I sent I think, 20 different landscapes to one Gallery, and they got them and they hung them up. And they said, their response was, these look like they were done from 20 different artists. And even even when I tried to do something that like, tied together, I had like a big seascape with this, you know, really complex sunset. And then I had a high desert mountain scene, and then I had a winter landscape with a barn and then I had like, like, it didn't even occur to me that these things were, they were all landscapes in my head. But I don't pay attention to style, I just tried to paint to the subject. And I'm vastly interested in in a wide range of subjects. So I'm not the one that people should look to when it comes to like branding and marketing, because I don't know what the hell I'm doing. I do know what the hell I'm doing. Actually, I'm I know that I'm not doing it, right. But I'm not willing to change, I'm not willing to, like settle on, on a thing.

Laura Arango Baier: 36:19

very rebellious. Wow. So it's helping if

Ryan S. Brown: 36:24

I if my wife would be if it would be up to her, she would just say paint this one thing, make us some money, and and swallow your pride. But I just I just don't didn't get into this to have a job, I got into this to having a job. And so I I'm, I'm wanting to do whatever I want to do. And that's it's chaotic, is that honestly, I don't know what day of the week it is, I don't I wake up and I come into the studio and I look for the thing that catches my eye. And I'll work on that, that day, I just whatever I want to do that day, my mood changes up and down. And and, and I'm happiest that way. So it's it's just a child childish selfishness. And an unwillingness to I don't know, grow up and do do be up smarter business, I have moments, I have moments where I'll be disciplined two or three days, and I'll get all my Instagram posts and whatever. But I get bored with that. So yeah, ultimately, I I just need a business partner.

Laura Arango Baier: 37:29

That would be a good idea. And you know, I think it's worth celebrating the different temperaments that all of us artists have, when it comes to managing our, quote unquote, business, you know, because it is technically a business. But at the heart of it, it's a passion, you know, it's you paint because you love it, no one needs to be rich. Unless you have like, really great connections, and you're already rich. But you paint it because you love it. And even if it is, you know, a chaotic thing for you, which I appreciate I have never come across anyone like that. I think it's still, you know, it's part of it. It's part of how different we all are and our stories and what we put forth in our work. So yes, I think maybe getting a business partner would help with your chaotic energy with your paintings.

Ryan S. Brown: 38:20

Yeah, I'm sure their advice would be stick to one thing if I did get a business partner, and then we would have to part ways because I'm not going to do that.

Laura Arango Baier: 38:28

Yeah. And you'd have to get a very particular business partner. But you know, you you're still doing it there, you're still selling your work or still, you know, picking yourself back up, like I said at the beginning, which is freaking awesome. So I think that's all that really matters. So you just keep going.

Ryan S. Brown: 38:46

Yeah, yeah. So there's ups and downs. And it's so it's such an unpredictable career. And it's tough to be good at budgeting and time management is important. But yeah, I think yeah, none of us got into this too, because we thought it was like a way to make a ton of money. So you have to kind of let that passion, direct, direct your, your decisions. And, and so everybody's path is going to be different. And you have to be okay with

Laura Arango Baier: 39:18

that. Yeah, absolutely. And that's also why we have this podcast and so that, you know, everyone can listen to different perspectives of different artists and the different ways that they manage their work or their business. And that success has many different faces. And I really appreciate that about talking to you today. I was not expecting this.

Ryan S. Brown: 39:40

Yeah, yeah. And successes is different to everybody. Right? I mean, Success to me is, is doing a painting I'm really, really proud of knowing I didn't cut corners and knowing like that it's as good as I could make it. And now, you know, and, you know, I assume that it when the painting is finished, it's going to be collecting dust on my wall for the next 10 years, I never assume this is going to sell, there's there's, I don't get any joy out of selling paintings, I get joy out of sharing it Sure, and paying the bills is nice, but the joy is is like finishing it, signing it and like stepping back and thinking I did that, you know, Success to me is is that success to other people whose priorities are a little different. I have friends that like they really prioritize money. And I I have no problem with that, right? I mean, they're providing for their families, they're making a good living, they're doing it in a creative way. And they're true to their goals. Right? That's I think success is when you when you're true to your goals, and it works, whatever that is, whatever that means. So you know, I think it's a toxic concept, that success is purely monetary. And that that's the thing that we should constantly be chasing. I don't think that's a good idea.

Laura Arango Baier: 41:08

Yeah, I agree. I'm also the mindset that the money follows like you do, you follow that inspiration and that passion, and the path comes forward, it's sure there are ways to, you know, work the other way around, where you find the money, and then you know, you you do the thing. And that works for some people that's, you know, painting for the market. And if that works, and it makes you happy, and that's great. But I'm also the same brain as you are. It's like, you know, I want to do this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So speaking of friends, as you mentioned, you do like having different artists as friends and hearing different perspectives. I wanted to hear a little bit about your upcoming Zion painting retreat. Yeah, it's

Ryan S. Brown: 41:56

so yeah, my favorite thing to do is hang out with artists and paint with them and see, you know, how they're different working methods. I think I learned a lot more now painting shoulder to shoulder with somebody, then, you know, going to a workshop and just watching them or whatever, I think I have a good enough foundation to where, you know, if I could paint the same subject with them, I can watch, I can almost watch their mind work through the decisions they make on canvas. And that's really useful to me. So, yeah, anyway, so we were donated to luxury houses in Zion. And so I started inviting all these friends. And then I realized, oh, my gosh, this is this is an incredible group of artists, we should open this up as a workshop. Because how great would it be to get exposed to this many different ways of working? And a lot of us are, you know, really experienced in painting that subject matter. So, I mean, the list is phenomenal. The dates are October 17, through the 22nd. And the that's the it's, you can find it on masters Academy of art.com. Under workshops, that's a painting retreat at Zion National Park. The artists that are going to be doing demos are Julia SDDS, who's amazing. Ben Bower, I mean, all of these people are amazing. I'm going to be doing one Zoe Frank, Sebastian's appeal from Paris. Patricia wightwick. From New York, Kim Lordy, a from California Greg Mortenson from New York. Scott Tom and powers. Travis shallot. He's also coming over from Paris, and Lindsey Dolce. So it's, it's like a superstar lineup of artists, but again, like all totally different working methods. And, and I'm just really excited to see how these guys interpret the landscape. Because obviously, design is is I mean, one of the most phenomenal places on the planet. And again, many of us haven't really tackled that subject matter before. So it's gonna be it's gonna be really fun. It's more it's not like the typical workshop where students come in and they get daily critiques or whatever, it's like a morning demo, and you get to watch and paint next to them. And it's more of like a sort of summer camp for adults where where we're all just hanging out all day and getting to know each other and creating friendships and painting next to each other and kind of just gleaning as much as we can from one another. So that's that's it the first night there's going to be a dinner after the the first demo, we're going to have a dinner and drinks all together. We rented a camp spot in Zion and we're just going to do a like a group dinner. Then last Saturday, we will have another group dinner with like a wet paint sale. And everybody get together at the houses and have like a barbecue or whatever, and hang out again on the last evening. So it's gonna be really fun. And, you know, when I, when I think about what I what I want to do in the future, I'd like to do one of these a year in various places, I'm even thinking about buying a chateau in France, just to do like summer workshops all summer, in like a stunning location, because it's, it's those experiences, it's those those moments in my life that I treasure the most, right? It's when it's the sort of life changing week long or a month long experiences where these, these become the, the timeline moments in our life that we get to look back on. And, and so I'd like to provide that for people if I can, if I can help organize things like that. So that's what this is meant to be.

Laura Arango Baier: 45:53

I think that's a wonderful next step. Because it's like you said, you know, money can't buy you time. And you know, it's experiences that money should be buying you. Yeah. And that sounds like an amazing experience. You have such a great list of people and doing that once a year. Wow. I mean, I think that's, that's really, that's a really great way to enrich people's lives. Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan S. Brown: 46:20

And selfish, because, you know, I want to learn from all these people, I want to hang out with all these people, I most of them I've met in person and spent some time with there's a few that I haven't. So Frank and Ben Bauer, and have sent some correspondence with Scott Tillman powers, but I haven't, you know, actually hung out with him in person. So I'm excited to spend time with these guys, because I admire their work so much. But, yeah, the friendships and those experiences are what I treasure most. So I'm really interested in focusing on on that in the future. Because it's just there's nothing better than then spending your time like that.

Laura Arango Baier: 46:58

I 100%. Agree. Wow. So if I saw that you still have a few spots open for that. The painting retreat? So if anyone wants to sign up, do What website do they go to?

Ryan S. Brown: 47:12

Yes. Masters Academy of art.com. Go to the workshop tab. And it's the first one there. There's a registration link. And, of course, they can email me with any questions. My emails, Ryan ry n at Ryan S. brown.com. Yeah, we had we had another signup yesterday. So we've got a few spots available. But yeah, it's gonna be a very unique experience. So I hope I hope anyone that wants to will will sign up.

Laura Arango Baier: 47:47

Awesome. Yeah. And we'll also include all of your links on the show notes. So if anyone wants to check them out, we can go to the show notes.

Ryan S. Brown: 47:54

Yeah, I might as well. As long as we're shouting stuff out. Stay that I've got the unvarnished podcast. It's on YouTube right now. I'm trying to figure out how to put it on other platforms, more audio platforms. I'll have to ask you about this when we end here. But yeah, the unvarnished podcast, you can watch, there's some good episodes on there. And then I'm trying, we're putting together right now a TV series called Art city TV. So I'm not exactly sure when that'll be done. But you could you could go to those. There's Ryan as brown as my instagram handle if people want to follow that. Masters Academy of Art is another Instagram, you can follow has updates on the mentorship or workshops were these experiences like the painting retreat, art city TV, on Instagram, and the environment podcast, also on Instagram. And then the YouTube channel is masters Academy of Art. So you can there's a lot of tutorials on their free tutorials on brush care materials, along with the podcast and other stuff. So awesome. There's all my plugs.

Laura Arango Baier: 49:06

Perfect. Yes. And again, all those links are gonna be in the show notes. And I actually have been a subscriber of masters Academy for a very long time. So I read actually go check it out again, because you have some really great content on there. So go check it out, guys.

Ryan S. Brown: 49:21

Yeah, thank you.

Laura Arango Baier: 49:22

Thank you so much, Ryan.

Ryan S. Brown: 49:24

Yeah, of course. I appreciate you having me on. Yeah.