82 Tim Tyler — Own Your Realm & Push Your Boundaries

Tim Tyler: 0:00

If you don't have failures, if not tinkering around the edges, if you don't, if you don't explore the edges and push the boundaries and feel free to do challenging paintings, interesting paintings, if you, you know, diverge from from your standard repertoire, then you're gonna have failures. And if you don't have failures, then you're probably not experimenting enough for you. You're in that little lane.

Laura Arango Baier: 0:26

Welcome to the BoldBrush show, where we believe that fortune favors bold brush. My name is Laura Arango Baier, and I'm your host. But those of you who are new to the podcast, we're a podcast that covers art marketing techniques, and all sorts of business tips specifically to help artists learn to better sell their work. We interview artists at all stages of their careers as well as others were in careers to the art world in order to hear their advice and insights. Today, we sat down with Tim Taylor, realist oil painter based in San Miguel legend Bay, with a passion for subtle narratives and wide ranges of subject matter. From portraits to landscapes to figurative to still lifes. In this episode, we discussed his perspectives on the realist art movement today and art history, the importance of creative work rather than formulaic painting, and why it's important to break away from societal expectations on art, and appreciate paintings from both a technical and intellectual level. He also reminds us that it's good to specialize in your subject matter of choice, and also reminds us of the value of failure, and by pushing your own boundaries can help you grow and improve at your craft. Finally, Tim invites us to check out his workshops in San Miguel de Allende. Welcome, Tim to the BoldBrush show. How are you today? Good. Thank you. All right. Yeah, it seems like over there. It's a very beautiful and wonderful since you're in Mexico right.

Tim Tyler: 1:53

degrees today. 50 perfect every day, like this.

Laura Arango Baier: 2:00

That's great. Yeah, compared to where I am, which is we're in the I think right now we're in the low 30s and snowing Yes, it is definitely snowing, although we get some warm fronts, but so everything just turns to ice and slush. But yes, it is definitely still snowing. I will probably snow until mid May. We'll see.

Tim Tyler: 2:25

You Farber north.

Laura Arango Baier: 2:26

Yeah, very far. Far enough where we don't get sunlight in the winter and we only get sun.

Tim Tyler: 2:34

Obviously stopped coming in August. Like four hours of darkness.

Laura Arango Baier: 2:38

Yeah. It's amazing though. It feels illegal. Yeah. Um, but you know, before we dive into more of, you know where we live? Do you mind telling us a bit about who you are and what you do?

Tim Tyler: 2:57

I'm strictly an oil painter. I used to do sculpture. Mr. Painter, last three years or so? Realistic paint all sorts of things. Fill life figures, animals, landscapes, portraits, kind of dress galleries crazy sometimes that you're not specifically when playing but most of that range that freedom choice.

Laura Arango Baier: 3:28

Yeah, I agree. I mean, for example, Leonardo da Vinci and his treaties on painting he wrote about how it was important to be able to paint different things, and not just stick to only one thing, even made fun of Botticelli for, for not liking to paint landscapes, which is? Yeah, um, but yeah, I agree. I think it's nice to have an understanding of everything instead of just, I mean, there's obviously nothing wrong with specializing. But if you find something interesting and everything, then why not? You know, there's always something beautiful to capture.

Tim Tyler: 4:04

I think it keeps you fresh, too. I think, if I were to paint portraits all day long, I think it'd be really exasperated and think you can volunteer to read if you're not careful. I started doing a little series one time recently. And it's comfortable, but I can see after 10 or 12 fell into a routine which might allow it to be mechanical.

Laura Arango Baier: 4:30

I agree. Yes, it is very easy to fall into a formula and just let that guide you instead of the other way around. Right. Which can, it could be a good thing and I I understand why galleries love that because they know what to expect. But I think for artists who are more free spirited conceal very confining.

Tim Tyler: 4:51

Yeah. It's just worth fighting for an occupation to have this sort of range of choices. That's a that's one of the things So a lot of commissioners have a specific assignment. And then the whole commission here, squelched by that overwhelming burden that, you know, we have to let them like to do.

Laura Arango Baier: 5:14

Yes, yeah. And then hopefully they do anyway, you know, because it's a bit of a risk.

Tim Tyler: 5:23

Yeah. It's never been a problem for me a couple of times, I've had to make adjustments, but it's amazing. The, especially if you have communication beforehand, very specific about what they want, what they expect, and just use the verbal communication anytime this is the remedy for the troubles later.

Laura Arango Baier: 5:43

Yeah, yeah. And sometimes even throughout, you know, Vicen, like, progress pictures, although I know some people don't do that. And I get it, because normally, the artist knows exactly what's wrong. And then the person who's seeing it isn't really seeing it the same way. So they might misunderstand it.

Tim Tyler: 6:04

I'll switch to the input. Just premature. To call that part of the painting is the ugly teenage ganglion. You don't want to show that to

Laura Arango Baier: 6:14

people? No, no, I feel like that's one of the worst parts of the you know, the process of creating an image is when it reaches that awkward point. And you're wondering, Am I in the right career? Is this always? Yeah. Oh, it's so painful. Yeah,

Tim Tyler: 6:36

let's have fun and just find the middle.

Laura Arango Baier: 6:40

Oh, yeah. It's, uh, it really hurts the, I guess the ego in a way, you know? Because it's like a put I know how to paint. Why does this look terrible?

Tim Tyler: 6:50

Oh, man. And I think that's good artistically. If you're challenging and you're doing new things, and you still have a bit of a challenge. Each subject matter that provokes you to try and try new things. If it's just really falling into that rut to the smoker?

Laura Arango Baier: 7:07

You Yeah, yeah. Because it takes that problem solving into account and then you're forced to come up with solutions. You know, it's like, like a mathematician. Getting a new equation each time with maybe something added on top. And eventually you get calculus.

Tim Tyler: 7:25

Exactly. I wish it was better for me. Yeah, same here.

Laura Arango Baier: 7:30

Yeah, it was my least favorite subject. Um, I love algebra. Not so much calculus too much. Yeah. Um, so I'm curious to know, when was that moment for you where you said, I want to be an artist, this is my path, and I will pursue it.

Tim Tyler: 7:50

I was about five. I think every child and about five was to be an artist. And some of us just hang on to that idea. And it just, it just felt like the thing I wanted to be I suppose other people become attorneys and doctors the same way? I don't know. But for me, was very young. Yeah. It was never really a choice. That's

Laura Arango Baier: 8:14

very willful choice as a child, then, you know, that's great.

Tim Tyler: 8:21

I got distracted. I wanted to be a professional baseball player for a while, but didn't work out for me. Ah,

Laura Arango Baier: 8:30

well, ah, you know, sometimes the things don't work out for a reason. Or at least I like to think that, you know, we're guided to the things we're meant to do.

Tim Tyler: 8:45

Hey, we get that we have a longer career than baseball players.

Laura Arango Baier: 8:53

This is true. We paint until we die.

Tim Tyler: 8:58

Yeah, I'd never retire by winter. Because you get faster, you get better your prices go up and have all the reasons in the world keep painting.

Laura Arango Baier: 9:06

Yeah, and you know, it's nice to have a purpose in the morning to wake up to you know, I feel like people who retire it's like, now what, right, that's when they pick up their hobbies. And that's when they pick up painting again, actually, in a lot of cases. So might as well. Yeah.

Tim Tyler: 9:24

That a lot of students do that.

Laura Arango Baier: 9:28

Yeah, that's, you know, it's very, I've met a lot of people, at least the first two that I went to who were retired and they decided, oh, my gosh, you know, I always wanted to paint and now I'm doing it and I think that's very brave, to finally do it. And you know, like you just said, it's something you don't retire from anyway. It's like the Gosh, it's a it's something you do, and it fulfills you. I think that's the most important thing, the fulfilling aspect. It really is like a part of the human condition to where we seek To create something that gives us meaning, you no

Tim Tyler: 10:05

reason to be. But that is kind of sad. I've seen a lot of doctors and dentists and lawyers come to me upon retirement saying, I always want to be an artist. My parents told me that was a stupid choice. So I had to go to law school. And it's the whole life doing something they really didn't want to do. Wasn't Harley is a good example of that. He just just a totally free said, I'm done with being a lawyer. And being artists. Way.

Laura Arango Baier: 10:33

Wow. That's brave.

Tim Tyler: 10:36

Yeah. And he did really well. Yeah.

Laura Arango Baier: 10:39

Well, there you go. That's the other part. You know, it's like, I know a lot of people poopoo being an artist is like this. I guess selfish, poverty stricken endeavor. When it doesn't have to be right. There are tons of ways to make it work, especially today, you know, with the Internet. And, you know, the networking has become a lot easier. There's less gatekeeping keeping from galleries. So it's a it's definitely a nicer environment to be an artist today than maybe even like 1020 years ago.

Tim Tyler: 11:13

I think I've noticed with the advent of the internet, you start scrolling looking for art online. There's a lot of good artists out there. It's kind of overwhelming how many real good artists are out there. And back in the old days, you just stumbled into Museum and then you can kind of forget about now you start Googling by 1000 Great peers. Yeah, overwhelming.

Laura Arango Baier: 11:35

It is. Yeah. And some people might even say it's daunting, you know, they might get very scared. It's like, oh, no, all this competition. When in reality, you know, I don't necessarily see it as competition. I see it as, I mean, there's someone for everyone. Um, and, again, what matters is, you know, what, what it does for you, as well, you know, if it's something you really really love, and you enjoy, then who cares if there's like another 1000 people?

Tim Tyler: 12:09

Like, I'll say, Just Just be yourself. Everyone else has taken.

Laura Arango Baier: 12:15

Yes. Good old Oscar. He's great. Um, but yeah, you know, I, that makes me wonder, do you personally like to cover certain narratives or stories with your work? Or do leave that open?

Tim Tyler: 12:32

Well, what I like to do with figures, who create an image that is provocative isn't quite crystal clear as to what it means. And I don't like I frankly don't like those allegories, or they clutter the painting with a lot of symbolism is accused of contradictions. Might are a little more subtle than that, I hope. But I like leave people wondering like blind justice is one of those that was it was unclear, especially with the title going justice is confusing. Another one that was happy homemaker that was kind of unclear, provocative and hard to look away from. So I like to kind of prestigious and that people try to figure it out, was a painting I did with a tricycle, and nighttime. And the story was uncleared but I had so many people. It's a painting of a bicycle. This mother does get the bicycle at nighttime. And I've had people walk up to me and say, Tim, people like the pain, but the missing child really said that. What miss each other? Yeah, it's all. It's all happening in your head and I'm on my phone.

Laura Arango Baier: 13:54

That's really funny, because why would they assume a child is missing? I mean, if I saw bicycle alone, I would assume the kids at home sleeping and he just slipped his bike out.

Tim Tyler: 14:04

Yeah, exactly. Kind of like a Rorschach test.

Laura Arango Baier: 14:09

Yeah, it definitely gives you an insight into someone's state of mind, I guess, because they're making all of these assumptions based on very subtle imagery and subtle cues. And it's telling them a different story. Which is so cool. I like that. Yeah.

Tim Tyler: 14:29

It was a story. I don't know if it's true and Cezanne, I think he would like to one of his shows. And this woman saw a painting of a woman and man and she was half dressed. This woman was aghast. She said, look at that moment. She said, That's it, man. And he said she's actually dressing. They're going to their daughter's graduation getting married for 30 years. Just goes to show you that eagle has the eye of the beholder. Yeah.

Laura Arango Baier: 14:55

Oh my gosh. Well, that's great. I mean, it's not Yeah, Yeah, that's yeah, that's fascinating. And I'd like that it's almost like, you know, this this, like satirical sort of way of seeing life where it's it kind of reminds me of Candide, you know, where the story really, it's very much like he takes things at surface level versus, you know, seeing things at the more subtle level. And it's very funny. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, satire is, it can be very mentally motivating and inspiring. I think.

Tim Tyler: 15:43

When you play with those things are sticking earlier with allowing interpretation to your pace, it's actually kind of challenging that you only give enough information to provoke people, but not give them enough that makes a concrete impression, to allow them that freedom of understanding, which is kind of a challenge. It's not it's not a technical challenge. It's more of a mental challenge. actually anticipate the work?

Laura Arango Baier: 16:12

Yeah, yeah. It's very, it's very delicate, sort of way of approaching a theme or story. Because normally, you know, with narrative painting, the story is very overt. There are, you know, there's an obvious action that's happening, and there's an obvious expression on the person's face. That is, you know, maybe they're sad, maybe they're happy, maybe they're angry. But definitely, with the symbolic sort of subtle side. It's very delicate, because you're dropping all these tiny little red herrings in there.

Tim Tyler: 16:51

That's exactly I do that on purpose.

Laura Arango Baier: 16:57

Oh, really? Yes. They love hearing Oh, I love Yes, Sam. Oh, man, by the way, I was curious to know because oftentimes, you know, you meet an artist and you they're already a full fledged artists, right. They've already been doing this for like you. So now I'm really curious to know, when did you become a full time artists like, When was the moment when you were making a living and you were like, Okay, I'm stable, I can keep going.

Tim Tyler: 17:42

Well, I started out when I was 18, or 19. I was in college one year. And then I started believe what my I got married, started doing what my family had done, which was be an in construction started building houses, and offices and things like that trade, so that if I ever had to go back, and if the market collapsed or something, I had to go back to a real job, I always had that steel in my back pocket. And I was 24. So I worked for an oil refinery for a while, which is a really good job as an operating engineer. Really crushed local job, but when I had the pain at night for three hours at night, and just keep my hand in the game, a turn on the bad days 29 or so I was able to go full time with a few little moments where I had to go back and do other real jobs but only for a short while. Actually had a funny story of a set. I was working on a horrible job. It was in Oregon drizzly rainy, and we had a painting big paintings and not to sell because I was always always producing art. So I had this big painting that was about to sell. And it was before the age of cellphones and the rain, pretty rebar down and trenches and muddy and working on the semicircle people. awful job anyway, we go into take a break, took a break and we took our breaks. I've run around the corner to a payphone call my wife and she said they bought it I checked the mail. Great. Tell that to my supervisor. I said I didn't speak to you. And I said I quit. They said should right now. Yes. Yep right now.

Laura Arango Baier: 19:41

Wow, that's very brave.

Tim Tyler: 19:48

What I needed back in the old days is more of a backlog of art. In those days. I just have three or four paintings around maybe five or six. But as it went on, I would have at one time I had Seven galleries in Park City and Sanford, Scottsdale, Jackson, New York. And we run. Companies in Northwest anyway. And so Valerie said to disburse paintings that have fit for paintings and every hour, what do you get to that point? It's pretty comfortable because checks are rolling. But in the early days, I'm gonna had a dozen painters in the world. And that's not enough to really give you that comfort

Laura Arango Baier: 20:30

zone. Yeah, yeah, it's really important to build up that production if you're gonna work with so many galleries at the same time. Which is another delicate side of the balance, I would say. That's awesome. No. Um, so what are some of the challenges that you've encountered as an artist creatively, and also financially?

Tim Tyler: 20:58

Well, I had an unusual upbringing, because first thing I ever did was a commission. So the lady to pay for the painting, but the art supplies, which you think about is extremely courageous and sweet, that I didn't have to pay, I didn't have any pay. So who paints and brushes her budget for a good first payment as a commission, and then I just used up the rest of paint continue to do another page. But I was, I was thinking, in retrospect, that was really nice to her and really courageous, but the painting was still painting them unhappy with it's a sunset of a specific place in Arizona. And it held up through the years, but she was very courageous to have done that. So I guess my point to an answer to your question is, I started out suddenly, in kind of a commercial place, and I was in a gallery when I was 17. I was in trouble science gallery last night to you. And so I started out in Scottsdale, principally, and big commercial was always part of an eel, not an anti alias. But in Legion, universities, they teach the students and being commercial, there's bad ad, which is total crap. Stupid. If you're not paying your PT, what's in your soul, and you have to flip burgers way of living? And they're not paying enough. So I think the local commercials, okay.

Laura Arango Baier: 22:29

Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's, uh, I guess that's the hard part, you know, at the beginning, where you do have to maybe take some commissions. And I mean, I've met a lot of painters who start out doing pet portraits, for example, like, they'll just take a mission, so people's pets, and off it is. At least it's a it's a nice sort of painted dog than it is to force yourself to paint a person because it can be so yeah.

Tim Tyler: 22:56

I can talk to my students about that. And I said, here's the thing. Here's the reason portraits is so hard is because every human being is extremely analytical of other human beings. I said, you can look at somebody or across a cafe from 35 feet away. And you can tell if they're looking at you, if they're looking behind you. They're looking at the 1000 mile stare, you can you can perceive all that more than half a second. And so we're extremely judgmental about other human faces. Yeah, yeah. It's

Laura Arango Baier: 23:28

a it's a natural human tendency, I guess, since the face is so recognizable. I mean, if the if I mean, I know it's probably happened to you, especially to you when you'd like, check your student's work. Or you can tell that one of the eyes is slightly floating half a millimeter too far.

Tim Tyler: 23:46

Do you see it? Really? Is that small, too? Little that makes it off? Yeah.

Laura Arango Baier: 23:55

It's insane. It throws it off. And it's like the anatomy is completely wrong. This AI is physically impossible right now, please fix it. So I guess over time, you do get better too. Yeah.

Tim Tyler: 24:07

Hopefully, target had to teach at the Royal Academy because he made him kind of mission like an age 40. And so he was ordered to teach a little bit in his letters. We have letters back and he said, the students there they're happy to get the head approximately correct.

Laura Arango Baier: 24:28

Oh, no. That's hilarious. Um, I mean, I understand his frustration. There's, there's a lot of space between approximate and then actually accurate. You know, it's like the precise versus accurate type of dilemma where, you know, precise isn't always accurate.

Tim Tyler: 24:49

When people, if you look at the anatomy doesn't really hold up, look around was dead on every corner, but even Sergeant's stuff, so you want to make sure this is still doing Stokes with Perfect example. Really 40 hands?

Laura Arango Baier: 25:06

Yeah, yeah, although I, yeah, although I will say the Bouguereau also liked to push things a little bit, you know, they weren't perfectly perfectly I mean, he didn't know his anatomy, that's for sure. But he always pushed that gesture to the edge, the believable edge, I would say. One

Tim Tyler: 25:25

of the things you'll notice is every every toe, especially a woman that put this painting perfectly every not every foot was painted. The position, there was always long it was registered. cliched totally. Well, don't tell us. Not everyone has toes like that. No,

Laura Arango Baier: 25:43

he was definitely idealizing them to the you know, the Greek, Greek sort of way of doing it. And if you look really close to his painting, so he was even going as far as putting the underlying veins on the hands. Yeah, yes.

Tim Tyler: 26:02

I get my that I've actually tried to do that. Figure out how to get it. And I think I know now, but that's a lot of work. It has,

Laura Arango Baier: 26:09

yeah, a lot of accuracy too. Because you don't, the vein has to be just visible enough, but not too visible that it like detracts from the form of the hand because Hands, hands are already hard as they are. So Bouguereau just taking it to that next level is a little bit daunting. It's admirable. It's a it's like why, at the same time, why not? You know,

Tim Tyler: 26:34

actually, you know, I spoke to your teacher, John Angel about grace techniques where he would, he would have to carry a canvas, and he would do the ink draw. And he wanted to isolate the egg. And they would varnish over the ink to isolate that from the subsequent pay. And these are not standard procedures. We're taught not to do that, but the virus underneath. But it's also interesting how well, it is held up through the years that sort of contradicts what we're taught. Yeah.

Laura Arango Baier: 27:03

So you know, that's the you know, that's the other really challenging side of oil paint, where what we hear right now, may or may not be true 50 years ago, 50 years later, right? We're in 50 years, mate. Maybe the things you're using are archival, but it's all based on someone's suspicion, based on maybe probably some controlled experiment, which as we know, you know, artists usually work in very moist environments, especially if they're, you know, not making enough money to get a real studio, they might be working in a basement or garage. And as we know, moisture is not the best friend of a painting in terms of archival qualities. So I guess we shall see. But definitely, his work is held up really well. There's very little cracking. And I remember one time, when he showed us this really cool experiment where he, he had taken these different white pigments, and he made lines out like he painted them on a just sewed surface. And he put it in a drawer for like 20 years, just to see which White was the widest. And of course, it turned out to be titanium white. I think he mixed it with calcium carbonate though, to make it even more opaque because that's what they made us do. Yeah. And then of course led away it was very yellow. But you can bleach to kind of back to the white that it should be by putting it in the sun. That would probably most

Tim Tyler: 28:40

people don't realize that they're afraid to put the lights on paying a penny less than a darker darker and so they need a certain amount of light. They're going to be uncomfortable viruses.

Laura Arango Baier: 28:54

Yeah, yeah. And then of course, you know, maintaining that moisture level especially if you're using like rabbit skin glue because rabbit skin glue really loves to crack and change with the environment. Which is why I personally don't use it. Um, I mean I'm not sure yeah, that's it's Yeah, and it's also I mean a lot cheaper to just get PVA size or you know, essentially the the plastic that helps protect

Tim Tyler: 29:28

mentioned PVA size. What I started doing on my big canvases is we're speaking about moisture also. You know, the backside of your linen is the part that we see some moisture in reacts and moisture, disrupt seals, so what I started doing is I would, especially a big canvas, I would stretch it inversely so that the backside is out, stretch a very tight on the bars, and then it would put PVA on the backside, isolate it, then unstretched it put it back the other way so that I never had to contend with See hydroscopic variations trigger T weekly. Nice.

Laura Arango Baier: 30:06

Yeah.

Tim Tyler: 30:10

That works great.

Laura Arango Baier: 30:11

Yeah have to try that. Out BoldBrush reinspire artists to inspire the world because creating art creates magic. And the world is currently in desperate need of magic. BoldBrush provides artists with free art marketing, creativity, and business ideas and information. This show is an example. We also offer written resources, articles, and a free monthly art contest open to all visual artists. We believe that fortune favors the bold brush. And if you believe that to sign up completely free at BoldBrush show.com. That's B O LD BRUSH show.com. The BoldBrush Show is sponsored by FASO. Now more than ever is crucial to have a website when you're an artist, especially if you want to be a professional in your career. Thankfully, with our special link faso.com forward slash podcast, you can make that come true. And also get over 50% off your first year on your artists website. Yes, that's basically the price of 12 lattes in one year, which I think is a really great deal considering that you get sleek and beautiful website templates that are also mobile friendly ecommerce print on demand in certain countries, as well as access to our marketing center that has our brand new art marketing calendar. And the art marketing calendar is something that you won't get with our competitor. The our marketing calendar gives you day by day, step by step guides on what you should be doing today, right now in order to get your artwork out there and seen by the right eyes so that you can make more sales this year. So if you want to change your life and actually meet your sales goal this year, then start now by going to our special link faso.com forward slash podcast. That's s a s o.com forward slash podcast. See that's that's the other hard part about our career. Right? So figuring out the the workarounds of these things where oftentimes you have to go to a some forum online to ask Hey, guys, has anyone tried this because I'm seeing this and I don't know how to fix it. Or I got a dent in my in my canvas. And everyone's like, spray the back with water.

Tim Tyler: 32:19

Kami, they're in the middle of class. And they said, one of my students is putting varnish on the finished painting. And speeding up it's not receiving the bar. said you have to upgrade it with your fingers is warming up. I'm gonna do that the heat will allow me.

Laura Arango Baier: 32:36

Yeah. Yeah, I've also heard I've heard a couple of fixes for that, which is really interesting. The one that Michael John Angel used to tell us was a potato. You take a potato, you cut it in half, and you rub it. Yeah. And then the other one is, yeah, the starch I guess, pull some of the oil off. Because obviously the canvas gets overloaded with the oil and it just won't take anymore. Which is why it gets like really beady if you you know, if you try to put varnish on top, and then someone sent me a video recently where they use garlic to do that. And I was like, Oh, I don't know if I would.

Tim Tyler: 33:18

Yeah, I would use a potential buck. Yes. Yeah.

Laura Arango Baier: 33:21

Yeah. It's a lot easier to wipe it off after they are a lot more easy to handle. It would could help maybe in between layers. There's like a layer that's like too overloaded. You could just put a little bit of garlic, maybe a little seasoning and then

Tim Tyler: 33:41

getting hungry. Yeah.

Laura Arango Baier: 33:44

Oh, man. Um, by the way, since we were talking about satire and irony earlier, in a recent interview, you mentioned the book, The Painted word. And I was googling. And of course, I thought it was such a great book, very interesting book to look at. And I was wondering if you find that we're still in a similar environment as realist painters. So we're still faced with these, this juggernaut of this mysterious group of wealthy people who decide that realism is a no go steal. Do you feel like we're still in that environment?

Tim Tyler: 34:22

A little bit, I think. I think that premise is dying slowly. It's rotting on the vine. That was all the rage in the 40s and the 50s. And the 60s a little bit, but people were already starting to invade that space with like, Andy Warhol was starting to have realistic representation starting to geek out about pure abstraction that just, he has no clothes saying, and I think that, for that concept to sustain itself, it takes a lot of energy. It takes a lot of writers, it takes a lot of newspaper editors, and I think they're just kind of tired of it. The continual drain of their energy to try to float that crap. And I saw maybe isolated I don't hang around to lead those people. But most of the people I know like realism, representational art, so perhaps naive.

Laura Arango Baier: 35:20

Yeah, you know, it's an interesting thing, because whenever, you know, someone mentions, for example, like Art Basel, right, which you can find quite a bit of really nice realism there. Everyone just thinks it's a stupid banana incident, which is really depressing. And I sincerely hope that we can grow out of that phase because it's, I agree with you even even in my short lifespan, it's been a little bit redundant, a little bit boring to encounter such I guess, like inauthentic, mediocre ways of drawing attention like that. I mean, it's obviously just a marketing ploy. And I think it's, frankly a little bit disrespectful to people who actually put their best out there and make an effort and, and make really good work, whether it's realistic or not.

Tim Tyler: 36:11

You can summer to sharpen some chemicals and gotta be declared art, but it's just 95. What else gonna go that's untenable. It's a fiasco.

Laura Arango Baier: 36:25

That's, I mean, I would think I was actually accidentally walking into a museum. And I saw that. Yeah, I think it was cool.

Tim Tyler: 36:33

I said, it was like going through his college with some museums, his art teacher, and they were raving over pure abstract art and talking about how good this minimalist thing was, and you just increase it, he's getting annoyed, and finally said, okay, my dad, stuff is crap. I know what I grew up with. That's just malarkey. Did you get like an after that?

Laura Arango Baier: 37:01

I mean, I do think, you know, people are free to like, what they like. And I do think that there is it's hard to separate yourself sometimes from what people say you should like. And I think that's, that's the danger in some things where, you know, if you allow yourself to be guided by what other people say is good, or supposed to be good, then you fall into a bit of a trap to have, oh, everyone says, this is beautiful. So therefore it is right. But then you forget that, oh, no, what if, what about my own tastes, right? And I feel like a lot of artists have that within them of being able to break away from the outer, you know, sort of societal expectations of things.

Tim Tyler: 37:47

We grow as artists and our perceptions get Peter and I, for example, I get used to like Van Gogh. But through the years, I've come to really like his stuff and see the quality of it. I still have and always will, I think a lot of grief over that. Because I think his compositions are horrible and delicate. Colors are bad. I get grief and I'm not getting I'm getting letters. country I go with great. Yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 38:23

you know, that's the other really cool thing about being in this profession and actively, you know, painting and attempting new things, and also observing paintings of the past, you can look at it and actually decide whether or not it's even in, in your realm of realism, right? Because Van Gogh's it, he tends to be more on the impressionism side and maybe even more on the I want to say illustrative because he's, he does take a lot more. He's more, he interprets more and isn't as see like exact right, which is very different from today's like, photo realism, for example, which is the other extreme, but you can look at those paintings and really pick out all the beautiful little qualities and I really like his brushwork here, I really like this specific color that he mixed in this one section. And despite you know, whether or not you do like the work, you know, there is that beautiful side of, oh, I can appreciate this aspect of this in a more intellectual way without being you know, overly, I guess, emotional of oh, this is this is this, therefore, now, you know, like, it really takes away that black and white thinking like you can be a lot more gray in your appreciation of the past. Although I will agree with Suzanne right there. I'm not also I'm also not a big fan, I think, in trouble. Oh, that's okay. That's okay. I mean, we all have different tastes, and I think of all the Impressionists, he was not my favorite. Definitely at the bottom for me, I was more of a Monet Monet girl. Hi,

Tim Tyler: 40:00

Alex Jeffrey Pizarro pacifically desirable don't get better. If you play Monet and simply bizarre painting together in their 20s, their paintings look very much alike. And then they started deviating. But I think those two guys are underrated. I love their work.

Laura Arango Baier: 40:19

It's also like, I think the other side of it is that Monet, he's very famous now. I mean, his work is very beautiful, and it has those beautiful lilacs. And that purple that actually in his time, everyone hated that purple, they thought it was evil. I have a love and appreciation for the purple that he used. And now he's very commercialized, quote, unquote. But that doesn't take away that it's so beautiful work.

Tim Tyler: 40:43

Well, you know, he had seven kids, eight kids, and so he had to really produce and make a lot of paintings. And he was very, very commercially minded. He was always the president of associations. And he got all the press, and he worked to maintain that top of mind impressionist, yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 41:02

yeah, definitely. And I think the other funny thing that not many people know is that karo was also technically an impressionist, he was alive in the time of the impressionists. And his work, of course, is absolutely my favorite of that time period. And that was the show, you know, you can be within a certain time, but not really, quote unquote, fit in with, you know, the say, the overarching theme of that time, right at that time period.

Tim Tyler: 41:35

Well, I asked you if we can like the three, because if the question isn't used to get credit for that, yeah.

Laura Arango Baier: 41:48

Yeah, I'm actually I can even go as far as to say the Turner was, at the end of his life, it was very abstract to, um, yeah, he

Tim Tyler: 41:55

grew, he grew like, like Frederick FINITY grew, he got better. I think he should grow and get better. But Frederick Remington also became very impressionistic, and loose and soft, like Monet, and Turner. Everybody tends to go towards looser, more expressive brushstrokes, except the real successful crowd. Workers. He was

Laura Arango Baier: 42:21

yeah, they say he used to paint like crazy. And, of course, he actually worked for photographs, which not a lot.

Tim Tyler: 42:29

That was interesting. I know. I was.

Laura Arango Baier: 42:32

Yeah. Take a lot of liberties.

Tim Tyler: 42:36

Yes, in essence, one of my questions like, How could he possibly find that he had photographs and makes me feel?

Laura Arango Baier: 42:43

Good. Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of people from the past would have definitely used photographs as a tool. It may have caused, you know, the same ruckus of, oh, no, now, portrait painters don't have a job, which, you know, at the beginning of any new technology, things always changed dramatically. So it would have been very similar, but I think they would have definitely used it as a tool. I mean, even back then they were using pinhole cameras to help them with the drawing like in Caravaggio's paintings. Yeah. Which technically is a camera. And they used it as a they abused it. Yeah. And, unapologetically, so they probably would have done the exact same thing back then. But definitely, I think, the early photography, and this is my own bias is much nicer than today's photography.

Tim Tyler: 43:36

It's almost as if they went to art school, because they understand composition, especially the French photographers. 8789 is a mix of photographs of boats and stuff are really well composed. And lashed out at people, if you'd be booked in 8889 is the crazy thing. We're talking about composition with an understanding and a depth that you almost never hear today. Only only artists talk like that now, but once upon a time, writers and critics would speak in depth about this nuanced thing. That is not there's no sensitivity to it anymore.

Laura Arango Baier: 44:15

Yeah, you know, I think, in part, there's been an I want to say also, because, you know, at the turn of the century, you know, with industrialization and all these things coming in, and so many new technologies rapidly, just bam, bam, bam, coming in. I think there was also a loss of information, especially in terms of realism, right? I feel like the realist really carried the tradition through in the 20th century were the illustrators, they're the ones who saved realism from absolutely fiction. Yeah, so I, yeah, so I think that's in part why so much nuance was lost because all we had left was was illustration and all of these things that maybe we had before. But it's one of those things where I like to assume that back then they just thought, oh, everyone knows this. So there's no reason to write it down. And therefore it gets lost. So I feel like that's partly what happened. And also, like, for example, I remember when I interviewed Michael John angel, he mentioned how, in his group of friends in Florence, they had rediscovered the bark plates. And that was a huge deal, because they found that in the market in France,

Tim Tyler: 45:27

wow, I didn't know that. Yeah. Yeah.

Laura Arango Baier: 45:30

It's insane. I mean, it's almost like you have to dig through all of these old things to, like, finally find these fabled parts of the academic process and the painting process that had been lost to time. And I, I am sad to think of all the things that we may have lost that we have to rediscover, you know,

Tim Tyler: 45:49

one thing Impressionists also maintain and sustain was composition, they were really keenly aware of, and I enjoyed the composition, and brushstrokes. If you look at the quality of it, see why it's gorgeous surface? Yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 46:05

it vibrates. I think that's the really nice thing about the Impressionists, they have the I think they're really conceptualized painting to the extent of light, and air being this vibratory thing. And they really wanted to capture that. And they have the tools to do it, too. I mean, with the invention of the paint tube, they were like, Oh, now I'd have to worry about mixing our colors from zero, just by good one. Yeah, I can understand why painters before only kept for four or five pigments. And they're like, Yeah, this is enough. This is, this is a lot.

Tim Tyler: 46:39

Like has any tea. Yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 46:42

it's definitely more convenient, and makes the job a lot easier. By the way, yeah. Um, do you happen to have any advice for someone who wants to become a full time artist?

Tim Tyler: 46:57

I think that everybody's financial situation is different. But you know, if you're aesthetically ready to go forth, but I tell my students is that when you're getting accepted into shows, and you're starting to win awards, and galleries are starting to like your work, then it's probably time to consider switching over. But also you need the other thing, but you need like 10 or 12, paintings finished and ready to go. Nuts. You just take that criteria. That takes a while to get to that point.

Laura Arango Baier: 47:30

Yeah, that's very true. Um, wow, that's really great advice. Because, you know, oftentimes, people, they might have a different idea of the actual logistics. So it's good to have that advice of Oh, yeah. Have work ready have at least 12 paintings, you know, that's a very good goal to have, because then it's easier to work from there. Yes. And especially if you have like a day job to to help,

Tim Tyler: 47:57

you know, galleries, five or six paintings right away. So you have to have that. Right. Yeah.

Laura Arango Baier: 48:04

Unless you have a solo show. You need 20. Yes. Oh, that's a lot of work. Which, by the way, you're part of a lot of associations. You're part of like the OPA salmagundi. Club International guild of realism. How long has it been for you to join these organizations in terms of networking? And do you think it is worth it?

Tim Tyler: 48:27

I think it's worth it. I think it's really fun. I had the best time I got accepted in salability club. And at the same time, I was in OPA forever. And Opa. Since its inception, I guess. The Opa. Remember, I think signature members OPA we're having a shell at some Guindy club. So my two reasons to attend. And because I was a member of the club, I got to go downstairs into the members only area. But it's really cool. As some of the good news is that at 71, I think was founded. But you go down there, and they have pool tables, and Thomas Moran and Albert Bierstadt played on. I mean, that's cool. You get to play pool on the same tables. Which is neat.

Laura Arango Baier: 49:18

Yes, very rich history.

Tim Tyler: 49:21

Oh my god, she felt honored as part of the whole lineage. Yes, yeah. The other organizations that are good I had certain things I wanted to do like the America they have a national contest. early on was one of my goals to to win that contest. And that one for example, you can only win one time. So after I did that, I dropped out and when I moved to Mexico, I dropped out a lot of things too. So a lot of those that are on my website that are former memberships. I don't I don't think I I still can participate but not a very good vigorous member anymore, but man, I just meet cool people. And you'll be California art club is one that's was really fun for me because I got the shows and meet the neatest people and people that you admire for a long time to show up in person, you get to hang out with them and go to dinner and stuff. And it is pretty cool.

Laura Arango Baier: 50:22

Yeah, that's the other really nice thing about being part of those groups, especially as an artist, because you know, it's such a solitary career, um, that it definitely gives you that opportunity to connect with other artists and, and make more connections and, you know, maybe come across new ways of doing things or even come across new ideas and new inspiration. So it's, yeah, that definitely sounds like it was worth it.

Tim Tyler: 50:48

And you get to converse in such a high level of you talking to other professional artists, it's just cool. We were watching OPA OPA was having a national show your mountain one time, and we would see lunch, right adjacent to a gallery. And we're all you know, opa members, mostly professional. And so we went as Russia 15, or listener discovery, looking around. Several subpoenas on moments pays are particularly good in your own environment. And the galley person came up and he didn't know who we were. She said, she teaches workshops. And I said, so the way

Laura Arango Baier: 51:30

Oh, that's so funny, that there's you know, it's nice to have that, that side of being able to appreciate other paintings as well, where you get to look at them and, and ask the person to like, oh, my gosh, how did you do this? Or, you know, what? What pigments did you mix to get bad? Or what brushes did you use to get that effect? Because it can be so specific sometimes.

Tim Tyler: 51:56

And what's nice is we'll get to the truck professional artists together. Will will agree on this one artists this one woman's not gonna remember me now, but she was really intriguing, delicate work. And we all we all agree. And that's that's another thing we should contest. The this the portrait Society of America has seven or eight judges like Senate. And they always choose really good art. Because they have seven opinions. Not one. Yeah. Advocate. Every club has to have seven judges.

Laura Arango Baier: 52:32

Oh, yeah, I guess because it might be really hard. And I think I did hear that the the judges, they tend to be artists themselves. So of course they know what's going on. And I think blind judging is also really good to where the judges can't talk to each other. And they, they only say Okay, I just this one's great this like this is my my, basically my opinion on these. And that's it. And there's no talking to each other because it's so easy to get influenced. Yeah, yep.

Tim Tyler: 53:01

Just make it much too all by themselves. For some guy fingers.

Laura Arango Baier: 53:08

Yeah, yeah. Um, and by the way, do you have any advice for someone who maybe wants to find their own voice as an artist? Well,

Tim Tyler: 53:18

it's back to that Oscar Wilde quote, I think you just want to be treated yourself. Because if you get really good at whatever, I used to pay clouds from others, at 9020. And below, it was a Western artist. And so that kind of like pink clouds. And he said, well do that pink clouds be the best cloud painter there was a person I found out about what's in hurry. So I shut that down. But that's good. Because if you'd like to pick horses paint horse, if you'd like to pay, still, as Pete still is and just become the best at it. That's that's the best advice is to own own that realm. That's, that's the way to succeed commercially. You still can have range within still actually do all sorts of landscapes, lots of freedom of choice.

Laura Arango Baier: 54:04

Yeah, yeah. I love that. Because that also opens up the playing field, you know, because some people I think they get so afraid of, oh, no, but what if I picked the wrong thing? Right? What if I pick something no one cares about, it's like, who cares? They'll still find you. There are people out there who do care. And I mean, I'm definitely one of those people who's like a little bit more guarded about, like, what I like to paint just because I'm also very unsure. But I think that's very normal, especially in the early days. It's like, oh, this is the exploration and experimentation phase. So it can be tough.

Tim Tyler: 54:40

I guarantee you that if you go into the homes of artists in our studios, you know, on a friendly basis. All artists have lots of lots of paintings that were done eight years ago, 10 years ago, and they're just holding on to that. Never found an audience but they could find one later, especially after your deceased your artist becomes a member is a resource than someone to come along and buy those who pay good money for them. But it's just just an indication that if you're a professional, you're going to have paintings in the corner somewhere going to pay into the closet. That's a sign of professional. I don't know, an exception to that.

Laura Arango Baier: 55:17

That's a that's comforting. Reality. Yeah, you know, I've heard other teachers call it the burn pile, though. Instead of oh,

Tim Tyler: 55:32

I had, I had a really big beautiful friend. He's like, 42 by 78. And gorgeous 20 sticker frame. And I had big fancy stretcher bars and had this painted on there and Grand Canyon. And I knew the frame was valuable. And I knew that Marsman value book, and so I just get exasperated, and it wasn't that bad of a pain. But I wasn't selling and I got tired of being taken up to French or unrolled it in a Burton. And then a square two days later, the gallery called Tim, do you have any more of those big Grand Canyon? 80s? So that's when I stopped growing pains.

Laura Arango Baier: 56:11

Oh, no. Yeah. Well, you hear that folks? Don't burn your paintings. No. Yeah, yes. Keep them in a corner, as we said, or closet. Wow, that's very painful. It's a harsh lesson. But yeah, it's good to know that, you know? I'm sorry, you had to relive that. Yeah, but it's very comforting to know that, you know, not every painting has to be a masterpiece, you know, or not every painting has to sell, or even go anywhere, for any reason. I mean, there's this, this side that I think is really hard for a lot of people to dive back into, especially after being educated as an artist, which is exploring painting for what it is, you know, an exploration, something that comes from play and not from a paycheck. Eventually, that's another paycheck. But

Tim Tyler: 57:11

yeah, totally crap, if you don't have failures, if not tinkering around the edges, if you don't, if you don't explore the edges and push the boundaries, and feel free to do challenging payments, interest opinions, if you you know, diverge from from your standard repertoire, then you're gonna have failures. And if you don't have failures, and you're probably not experimenting enough, and you're, you're in a little lane.

Laura Arango Baier: 57:40

Yeah, yeah, and that's the other interesting thing too of like, seeing painting as almost like a fun puzzle or a challenge where it's okay to bite off more than you can chew sometimes because you'll learn from it right if you if you see it without the expectation of something that outside right some sort of outside pressure whether that's a gallery whether that's a commission whether you know if it's if it's just you and this canvas, and whatever the hell you want to put on it. I think that's where the magic can really happen. Just letting go.

Tim Tyler: 58:19

Thanks. A lot of focus and discipline and confidence in yourself know that penny that Jerome did have the gladiators in the name of it now. It is a very, it is it's amazing. 1500 faces in there. Can you imagine get up in the morning say well, Patri world faces today. So much work. How did that? Oh,

Laura Arango Baier: 58:43

man. See, I would love to resurrect him and ask because his paintings are amazing.

Tim Tyler: 58:50

I saw a couple in a little obscure art, art museum and Shawnee, Oklahoma. And they had to unfinished Jerome's, and it was very educational because it was complex. Middle East three screens is that he drew every line, it was part of a pencil, then he quit back cover with the incline, even before the painting went on. So he was extremely deliberate and careful from the get go. Like, with all this complex architecture, the hanging, hanging carpet.

Laura Arango Baier: 59:25

Really impressive. Amazing. Yeah, that doesn't surprise me that he would be so meticulous because I mean, I've mentioned this a couple times on the podcast, but 90% of a great painting is good drawing an accurate drawing, or else yeah, there's no way around it. And of course he's an academic so with even more reason, he'd be super accurate.

Tim Tyler: 59:52

That was talking to California art club. I was talking to Mr. Black shoes, and he had done a painting a long time ago and it was it Indian with geese in the background, I had a goose over shoulder. And I saw these wonderfully composed Garrett illustrated with yours. And I said, Did you draw different geese and move them around pieces of paper and said, yep. That's, that's reassuring to know that they're doing it precisely the way you and I would do it. Yeah.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:00:26

Yeah. And Michael John Angell, also he's, he would take like, his little drawings of like to compose, he would cut them out and like, just move them around. Yeah, wherever he wanted, especially when it was like groupings of people, he would say, Okay, you need an odd number. You need this, like, there's so many little rules to composing an image. And that's the other fun part. Right. That's the other part that I think, you know, it's especially with today with like, the modern approach of painting, which is just you and an empty canvas and no plan. I think it's okay to have a plan. It's like, that's like the equivalent of going into your kitchen and being in front of a frying pan and be like, Okay, I gotta cook something delicious. Or if you have a recipe, then you can definitely cook something delicious. But if you don't have a recipe might prove a little bit more challenging.

Tim Tyler: 1:01:19

A few. A few of my paintings like the deconstructionist, I did a cartoon. So the Lifesize drawing worked, all the nuances and everything. And it is, once you do that, it's really kind of comforting when you start with the oil part. Because you've worked out all these compositional challenges. And I hate drawing dryness work. I find color far more rewarding, but sometimes.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:01:47

Definitely, yeah. Because I mean, the nice part about the planning is that you can really work through any of the hiccups that might come up. And also the you can plan out the value study, right? So you can be like, Okay, this is I know what's going on here. I know what's going on there. So that you don't run into the issue later down the line where you're like, oh, no, my values are too scattered. And I don't have an obvious focus point. And it's not working.

Tim Tyler: 1:02:14

You want to make those mistakes before you're too invested in the process. You 35 hours drawing CC

Laura Arango Baier: 1:02:25

thanks. Exactly, yeah. And funnily enough, one of my side hobbies is knitting. And, yes, and even in knitting, we do a swatch before you start the actual thing. Yes, so that you can see exactly how many stitches you need in order to meet the the actual measurements of the final thing. So usually you do swatch as a test. Oh, I keep my swatches, I think they're great to keep. Yeah, because I mean, you can unravel them and just use that yarn. But I like keeping the swatch. Because further down the line, if I want to reuse a certain stitch, I can look at it and be like, Okay, this is how the stitch looks. And I can be sure that I liked this. So I think it's kind of similar with value studies where you know, if you if you have like a high key painting that you did in the past, and maybe you want to recreate something similar, you already have a bit of an example to work from that you've done, and maybe even find ways to improve it. So there's a really cool way of doing it like that. Yeah, do you personally like to devalue studies? Actually,

Tim Tyler: 1:03:31

I like those especially small ones. No. No bigger than this. And that usually is smaller. I think you need about that much just to get some understanding, but I love doing those and I saw a solo show in Texas, and they had some real color sketches he did on the beach. They're great. But then that brought him back and he sent one to soya and he I mean she wants to Zoran said when the sergeant and they usually do three kept one for himself and one with a sergeant in one zone. Wow. Pretty good little group. Yeah.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:04:12

Well jealous. I wish I had a really nice little thumbnail sketch.

Tim Tyler: 1:04:17

Great error to live. Yeah, yeah, I can take one two there. Sweet. Yeah, the study for for the sad inheritance a great big, gorgeous trees. The children and beach children have bad legs in the process allowing them to swim. I was before but

Laura Arango Baier: 1:04:43

there was a gorgeous paintings. I like his beach paintings a lot. There's one in particular of I think it was a burial of some sort. Um, definitely Robert is very somber painting, but it's funny because it's at the Ah, and it's supposed to be a very happy place.

Tim Tyler: 1:05:04

He was really good at altering reality, if you look at some of his scars, and almost black or very dark and gray is starting to pop the sales or whatever, but it

Laura Arango Baier: 1:05:15

just took effect. Yeah, yeah. And that's the other fun side about painting, you know, you can really do whatever you want on the canvas you can make. Gosh, you have, you really have so much control over everything that that's why it becomes so overwhelming. And that's why having a plan is

Tim Tyler: 1:05:33

so nice to feel comfortable. Yeah, I used to be such a painful life. And people say science is such a slave to the subject. And I like doing that I think gets some wonderful tones and representation. I was had a pain and a big payment and went to the Charlie Rose museum. And I was at the show. This lady came up from behind me that I studied in Minnesota, one of the affiliates. And she said, Are you the artist and said, Yeah, she saw a question. Did you paint that site safe? And I said, Yes, I did. But the question is the interesting part, she could deduce from the painting by methodology. And it really is an endorsement of the method, I think. But in those days, I was very devoted to what sergeant to say I save the nation. But recently, I've allowed myself to deviate things like so I did. And it's better but either way, find the courage to do that. Yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:06:35

yeah. Cuz that says just create a really beautiful effect, especially with light. And you know, capturing that because there's, there's that really nice effect of you put, basically, the bare minimum, almost, it's very simplified, and it's very, gosh, it has a bit of a sort of somewhat of like, a blurry effect, I like to call it it's almost like a simplified light effect that just creates this very three dimensional person very easily. So I understand.

Tim Tyler: 1:07:11

Lots of soft edges

Laura Arango Baier: 1:07:14

you get the likeness a lot, lot faster than if you were, you know, obviously measuring everything. But it of course, that's the drawback the, you know, you can't really use site size all the time, in the exact same way, which can be very limiting, but for sure, for portraiture, it's nice. So the other thing that I was very curious about, which I haven't asked in a while, is how do you personally feel about AI? Art? And do you think it's, it's how do you think it'll affect the realism world?

Tim Tyler: 1:07:45

Well, I am conscious last night, and there was a band from Slovenia, and the guy that was hosting the concert, he said, if you like, how do you feel about submitting music? I said, I'm perfectly indifferent. I have no opinion about 30 missiles. Never been there. And I don't know. But I feel the same way about AI. I don't know anything about it. And I'm particularly intimidated by it I'm not interested in. I'm a writer too. So I think writing maybe could help you get through some places where you can have jammed up. But whatever help I got from it, I was sure go back and redo it and make it my own. But somebody said recently, some famous writers, so let's call it what it is. It's just as grand international plagiarism source. Everything that provides us plagiarism.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:08:37

Yeah. Yeah. Well, that makes sense. I mean, it's, uh, the tool itself is, I mean, it's give it all of this input from a bunch of different people. And you know, obviously, especially with paintings, I've actually seen images that have come out on the other side, that have the actual signature of a real Painter at the bottom. And not even like the AI just because it's stolen. It just thinks, oh, it's supposed to go there. So I think that's definitely a testament to it being not quite ethical, in that.

Tim Tyler: 1:09:19

It's not ethical, but it's also not delicate. I would contend that the amalgamation of input from digital sources can never be subtle and human and sensitive. I would challenge it to ever be that way. It's not. I don't think you can write a masterpiece of a book. There are a lot of bad books written by people. But if you want a really bad book, read one by an AI. I think it's just clumsy and awkward. It lacks a soul.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:09:51

Yes. Yeah, that's the part it's a it's not. It's kind of like oh my gosh. It's kind of like Plato's cave. It's the person in the cave. You know, we're outside and then the AI and the AI can't leave the cave. At least not yet. We'll see what it does.

Tim Tyler: 1:10:14

Yeah, well recommended on the sheet. Oh,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:10:17

yeah. It'll probably look like Terminator. Yeah. Yeah. Um, by the way, can you tell us where people can learn more from you?

Tim Tyler: 1:10:29

I have a website. What is my website calm. It's called San miguel.com. You can go to my website, which is TC tyler.com. But we click workshops that takes you over to San Miguel side. I used to travel for years I travel around and every three to four weeks and it's done the workshop and I'm just going to stay here for now and do workshops here because it's a gorgeous town. Wonderful place a wonderful place to visit which I guess has something to do a workshop and it's like I used to teach in Italy and provides I knew that people went to Italy in Provence not to see me they just wanted to take a workshop and Emily provides it was more about Lake Como than it was me. Famous me yeah. Cool. Just, um, just the sidebar. Excuse.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:11:23

Yeah, I've heard that from other people who have taken or taught workshops in France and Italy. I agree. San Miguel is very beautiful. I've seen pictures of it. And it's, it's very picturesque, has a lot of gorgeous architecture. Yeah.

Tim Tyler: 1:11:41

This 50 good restaurants here any outrageous?

Laura Arango Baier: 1:11:49

Yeah. Awesome. And then by the way, do you have a social media that maybe people could find you on?

Tim Tyler: 1:11:56

I'm supposed to do more Instagram than I do. I'm a Braveheart slash him on Instagram, but pretty negligent on that I need to do better.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:12:07

I think maybe you have a YouTube channel, right? Yes,

Tim Tyler: 1:12:11

I do. That's another one I've been neglected about is my YouTube. I started doing live interactions with my students. And I haven't sat down to do a step by step tutorial like I should suppose. I need to do more of that. I really do. I did my miss. Oh,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:12:28

I mean, you know, it's never too late. Yes. Yes. Well, thank you so much, Tim, for giving us your wonderful advice. And for the very engaging chat.

Tim Tyler: 1:12:45

I can see I've been watching quite famous artists. I love that.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:12:52

Yes. Yeah. I love that too. It's it's very mind opening to be able to talk to so many absolutely amazing people on the podcast. So I'm very grateful.

Tim Tyler: 1:13:03

Thank you.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:13:04

Thank you.